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The Rachel Maddow Show

News/Business. (2011) New.

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00:59:59

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Annapolis, MD, USA

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mpeg2video

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mp2

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720

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480

TOPIC FREQUENCY

Us 14, Libya 12, Gadhafi 11, Wisconsin 7, Benghazi 6, Washington 6, Canada 6, U.s. 5, Ajdabiya 4, Rachel 3, New York 3, Syria 3, Daiichi 3, Eugene Robinson 2, Jack 2, Richard Engel 2, Frank Von Hippel 2, Obama 2, Rem 2, Msnbc 2,
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  MSNBC    The Rachel Maddow Show    News/Business.  (2011) New.  

    March 25, 2011
    9:00 - 9:59pm EDT  

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follow my tweets at lawrence. who is that on there? >> i ended up making jimmy feel better by making him a cocktail called the monkey gland right there after that discussion. he sounded very relaxing. >> i am sure he did. i am awaiting mine. >> stop by later. i will have some extra for you. thanks to you at home for staying with us for the next hour as well. the u.s. handed over military operations in libya to nato today, sort of. the president of yemen offered to step down today, sort of. the government of canada was toled today, srt f, and pastte ecuin much larger area around the busted nuclear reactors today, sort of. it was a day of huge headlines, with equally huge devils in the details of all of these big stories. but we're going to start with u.s. politics, where we don't really do details. we tend to like things blunt and simple. case in point. there is a magic word in
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washington politics. the well earned common wisdom about this word is that if you attach this special magic word to a proposal to something the government could spend money on, doesn't matter how bad an idea it is, how many smart people think it is a stupid thing, if it has this magic word attached to it, it becomes politically invincible, can't be killed. the magic word is defense. and it is well earned common wisdom in washington that any spending that is labeled "defense" is pretty much untouchable spending, can't be killed. dollars spent by the military or on things that seem militariesque just don't compete with other kinds of spending in the united states. and there's a million reasons why. defense contractors figured out that spreading to lots of different congressional districts the jobs associated with a particular airplane, vehicle, weapon system earns you a champion in congress for keeping those jobs from every district you have larded yourself into the defense
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spending is untouchable because calling a politician weak on defense in the 2000 season is the equivalent of calling them soft on communism in the 1950s. defense spending is untouchable because civilian lawmakers defer so deeply to the military, and to the former military officers laced through the contractor world, that if you squint, you would swear congress is a lack ee puppet in a country where the government was taken over by a hunta. defense spending since the mammoth defense spending of the reagan years has been unquestionable in america. but not in the case of war in libya. republican house speaker boehner's letter to obama says this. has the department of defense estimated the total cost, direct and indirect, associated with this mission? did you say cost? cost for something the military is doing? in america? all of a sudden we are worrying
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out loud cost aman taxpayers andow democratgres alongside dennis kucinich republican congressman ros liby. this could cost billion dollars, which means another billion-dollar debt our kids and grand kids and great grandkids
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are going to have to payback. then senator lugar said about libythea cts are our budget is stretched too far and troops are stretched too far. this new way of thinking and talking about waging war, which is frankly an old liberal way of thinking about and talking about waging war is even seeping into the mainstream, beltway media coverage of the operation in libya. you are seeing headlines like this from the hill newspaper this week. cost of military campaign in libya could wipe out gop's spending cuts. associated press reporting on the cost of the u.s. role in libya. in its reporting, ap brings this detail. in a classified briefing for congressional staff tuesday, officials from the state department, pentagon and treasury were pressed on the cost. congressional staffers and presumably their bosses in congress are demanding details h this thing in libya is costing us will have.
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suddenly for the first time in all the wars i can remember, the question of the cost of waging war isn't just being raised by come east on the margins, it is being main streamed, discussed, worried over, debated by an ideological rainbow of people, liberals and conservatives, day after day, again and again, even on your tv machine. >> almost all of our congressional days are spent talking about budget, deficits, outrageous problems. yet at the same time all of this passes, which is an expensive operation, even in a limited way. >> talking hundreds of millions of dollars. >> at what point do wyoming residents get fed terms of risks
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americans and also the expenditures to taxpayers, you don't to have groundorces for it to be a high risk, prolonged missn. >> well, that's very true. it gets expensive very quickly. >> we're in this crisis. they are deciding spend all this money again. politically unspendable. suddenly there is a mainstr discussion in washington about money that recognizes a dollar spent on a bullete s somethin bu
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sticker. ere car you will see it on hold a bake sale to buy a bomber. this has been a libel fantasy forever about how defens policy gets treated in fights about all other kinds of spending. this has been a liberal bumper sticker fantasy for years. maybe it took the election of a president who republicans want to beat so badly, they will back flip over their own principles and ideology to do it. but maybe this will be the war where we started actually counting the cost while we waged it, and we started weighing those costs against other things we could spend that money on instead. there is word tonight that president obama will be addressing the nation on the issue of libya from nent, that n
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taking over as "the new york times" says in this headline, taking over full command of the libya campaign, with nato in full command or not, however, the pentagon was not able to give a clear statement about just how much u.s. responsibilities will be scaled back in libya. really, what the scale of the libya war comes down to for now, for all its implications, including cost, what the scale of the war and commitment come down to is the rebels versus gadhafi. whether the two sides on the ground are heading towards an end to the conflict or whether this is a stalemate, an internationally overseen
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military stalemate. nbc's richard engel is in rebel held territory, unhappily for us, he found tonight more uncomfortable footage too close to the fighting going on on the ground. that footage and richard live next. >> announcer: this past year alone there's been a 67% spike in companies embracing the cloud-- big clouds, small ones, public, private, end. uranap mt move easily and securely to reach many clouds, not just one. that's why the network that connects, protects, and lets your data move fearlessly through the clouds means more than ever.
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water. just fighting between the revolutionary ees and gadhafi's men, says this man. through a broken gate, we enter his home. it was badly damaged by gadhafi's troops. and the fighting isn't over. outside, we hear gunfire. gadhafi's troops are just a few blocks away. we see rebels running, advancing. firing behind a wall. [ no audio ] >> the rebels reload. >> we lost some of the audio there from richard's report there from ajdabiya. do we have the second part available to us at all? no, we don't have it available.
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we will try to reestablish the audio on that and get it posted online, if not on the air, so you can hear what richard is saying as well as seeing where he is. he joins us live from benghazi, he is nbc's chief foreign rebel fighters about weapons and the rebels' ability to fight, and they are sort of expressing some optimism that they are getting better in terms of military capacity. their training, their discipline. do you share that optimism? >> reporter: i was fairly encouraged by what i saw today.
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i'll set up that clip that you just played. we are here in benghazi. for the last several days, we've been going down to the frontlines, which is about 100 miles south of here. instead today, we went wn to thfrt li, en ntnt e dertso ebo go around the front line and enter the city of ajdabiya itself. in ajdabiya, there were street fighters, gadhafi forces hold part of the town. don't hold other parts of the town. and the rebels inside the city where they have something of -- they are on par, more or less, with gadhafi's but inrban warfare, if youre untrained rebel, fairly unskilled libyan soldier, the sides are much more even. and we were somewhat encouraged.
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we saw them moving better. they seemed to be communicating among themselves with greater degree of sophistication. they were camouflaging some of their vehicles, and reinforcements were actually coming in, and they were in the town. that's perhaps the most encouraging thing. so but it is still going to take a long time. i was looking at a map while i was waiting for this segment, and even if they take ajdabiya, there are still 500 miles of little towns they need to cover before they reach tripoli. so get to go ajdabiya is great, even better from the rebels' perspective, but this is going to take a long time if they have to go town to town to town for 500 miles. >> richard, is there any reason to understand the effect of the international force there as having essentially an augmenting affect on what the rebels are capable of? are the international forces
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making the rebels more capable of defeating gadhafi's troops when they do get into fights with them? are the international forces operating at such a distance that it is not making a difference in those skirmishes that you saw? >> reporter: no, it is making a huge difference. one, this rebel movement would have been extinguished had there not been an international intervention. benghazi would have been overrun. they were losing this war and were about to lose it. how close they were to losing it is amazing to think about. the tanks, i am in benghazi, were down the street from here. and they were heading in this direction with heavy arm or and the tanks. most people were leaving in this hotel where we're staying, it was just the manager and a few other people left on the roof. everyone else was gone. and they really thought this was over. the few rebels in the city managed to hold back those tanks for a few hours until the air
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strikes came. if the air strikes had waited even 12 more hours, benghazi would have been taken back by gadhafi, and who knows what would have happened in here. most people think really terrible atrocities would have happened. so it has helped tremendously. it gives the rebels confidence. they are going out and fighting. when gadhafi's forces were advancing, rebels did nothing but retreat. they didn't want to be in the open because of airplanes. now they are willing to go into the city and fight. there's a tactical advantage. they don't have, gadhafi's army doesn't have the heavy weapons they had before. so of course that helps. >> in terms of the weapons the rebels have access to, one of the things you were able to hear from talking to rebel fighters is that they say they are getting more weapons in libya. a, do you believe that's true, and do you know anything about what the source of the new weapons is? >> reporter: well, there are only two sources for the weapons
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to come in. that would be either from egypt or from the mediterranean sea. egypt would be the most likely place. we've heard reports and reported several times that the saudis have been supplying weapons here through egypt. we haven't seen any brand new weapons, but we are seeing more weapons. for the first time today, i saw on the outskirts of aj da bea multiple rocketlas,l me, taking vacation, they are starting to creep back to the front. maybe they are realizing if the rebels win it would behoove them to join the movement. with every day, they seem to gain some momentum. still, look at the map. 500 miles. things could change. there could be a tipping point here, and gadhafi's regime could
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collapse from within. if they do this long march to tripoli, i truly will not be getting back to new york. >> richard engel live in benghazi in libya for us tonight. and richard, i know you're not going to have a permanent address for a long time so we can send you care packages, we are sending you those in theory and you should let us know if we can do it in reality. >> all right. thank you very much. >> absolutely. remember on yesterday's show, we reported on workers at the nuclear plant in japan having to be hospitalized because they stepped in water with higher than normal levels of radiation? turns out the water was 10,000 times more radioactive than normal, which is obviously bad, but which also probably means one very, very specific thing about japan. stay tuned. [ male announcer ] if you have type 2 diabetes,
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they measure exposure to radiation in rems. it is an acronym, rem, like the band. stands for something else unpronounceable that essentially means a standardized unit of radiation defined in terms of exposure for humans. if you as a human are exposed to 200 rem, you are likely to get serious radiation illness. if you as a humanitarian are exposed to between 500 to 1,000 rems, you're dead. in japan, they say the workers
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at daiichi are exposed to 40 rems per hour. dangerousness of exposure to radiation is cumulative, adds up over time. these guys are being exposed to 40 rems per hour. at that rate, five hours at the plant is enough to give you radiation sickness. 12 and a half hours working there could be enough to kill you. we reported yesterday that workers at daiichi stepped into water that was contaminated with radioactivity. we learned today the water they stepped in was not just more radioactive than normal water, it was 10,000 times more radioactive than normal. that highlights not only how dangerous it is to be working there, but also raises the question of how that water there got that radioactive. the water accident that hospitalized those workers we said on yesterday's show it was two workers, turns out it was three, that accident happened in reactor number three. "the new york times" attributed a long and upsetting description of the status of reactor three
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to an anonymous senior nuclear executive that the paper described as having broad contacts in japan. the executive says there is a long vertical crack running down the side of the reactor vessel itself. the severity of the radiation burns to the injured workers are consistent with contamination by water that had been in contact with damaged fuel rods. quoting the executive directly, quote, there is a definite, definite crack in the vessel. it's up and down and it's large. the problem with cracks is that they do not get smaller. how important is that if it's true? and do the injuries to those heroic workers at daiichi imply that it is true? and does the fact that this is one reactor that includes plutonium in the fuel mix make this a worse situation than would be true if it happened at the other reactors? today japanese authorities tried to bring down worries by saying the reactors were stable. they expanded evacuation advice.
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previously everyone within 20 kilometers was told to leave. now people up to 30 kilometers are not being told to leave, but are being advised to. this is worth understanding. i desperately want to understand its importance. i am grateful to have frank von hippel with us. cofounder of the program on science from princeton. co-chair of international panel on materials. he wrote an article on fukushima and the future of nuclear power in the united states titled it can happen here. professor, thanks for being with us again. >> my pleasure. >> let me start as is my custom if i got anything wrong in the introduction. >> no, that was good. that's the first i heard about the crack. that could explain a lot. i was looking at the reports from the nuclear industrial
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safety agency in japan, and they've been putting quite a bit of water into those vessels, but haven't been able to cover the fuel. this could explain where it's going. i thought it might also possibly be tre w a vve on sople atheyha'tee able to close because of the salt accumulation from saltwater. >> is there anything else about the conditions at the plant, whether it is releases of radioactivity or any other kinds of signs, is there any other way to know about seeing it directly, if there is a rupture in the reactor, a crack like the one described by that anonymous source in the times, is there a way to know? >> you know, people could speculate about it, but it sounded like he really -- that there was visual evidence. i don't know. you could certainly put a camera in there. i don't know how they've been trying to do that. i think that would be a very good idea. you really -- it is amazing how little they know about what's
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going on in the reactors. most of the sensors are still dead, and the few that do report, you know, reports are worry some, when they indicate the water is still not covering the fuel. >> we know that there has been damage to some fuel rods. we can see the damage to the external containment vessels. we know some radiation has been released. we are now two weeks into this. given all we already know about what is bad, how significant would it be to find out that an internal reactor vessel had cracked this way? how much worse would that be than the situation we -- than what we know the situation already is? >> depends on where the crack is, how high it is. if the bottom of the vessel is still intact, then it still can serve as a pot and prevent the melt through through the bottom. hold enough water to ever keep
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that debris at the bottom of the pressure vessel, much of the fuel is probably debris at this point, keep it from continually heating up to the point it starts to heat up to the pressure vessel. we don't -- it sounds like from the description it is on the side of the pressure vessel. there's hope the pressure vessel can hold some water. and even, you know, depending on the rate they pump the water in, it would -- and the rate at which it goes out, you could , the different fuel at that reactor? >> i don't, frankly.
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it's only about 6 or 7% of fuel.
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wouldn't wan to live for too long, but it's not life-threatening at all. and it ju results in a slight increase in the risk of cancer, maybe a tenth of a percent a week of exposure to the population that may be there. >> the map you describe is one i have seen today describing tt. we're going to post that online at our website so people can see exactly what you mean there. princeton professor, nuclear physicist, frank von hippel.
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i know you have been besieged for comment and i am grateful you were willing to talk to us. >> my pleasure. it has been quite the year for toppling governments. latest to fall? canada, did not see that coming. details, plus the hidden message inside that story for american elected officials trying to get away with stupid arithmetic. that's coming up. ♪
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hey, watch this clip. this is not from american cspan, it is from canada. from their parliament. happened earlier today. >> yeas, 156, nay, 145. >> order. order. >> what's with the cheering and the paper throwing amid the wigs and the french? because they just toppled their government. this being canada, still was pretty civilized. spelling with an s, not az. the government was toppled. this vote in parliament doesn't
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meanest out of a job, it means there will be an election. it will be the fourth election in seven years. what all the cheering was about, what they nailed him for, got the no confidence vote was a lack of transparency on budget issues. to be fair, there are a number of things they could have gone after this guy for. there was a scandal involving a man that used to work for the prime minister, allegedly arranging for an ex-hooker fiance of his to make money off a company the guy was lobbying harper's government for. wow. there were a lot of things that could have led to this today. what ultimately led to the cheering and paper throwing in the parliament was transparency about the budget. even though the global financial crash was kinder to canada than most countries, canada is not in great shape for them. their deficit hit a record last year, they are still trying to climb out of that. despite that, the conservatives and prime minister have a lot of military spending and other spending, particularly on crime
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issues which they like for political reasons, and they are trying to slash one of the sources of the government's income, revenue. they propose a cut in corporate taxes that could cost the canadian more than $6 billion. the vote that toppled the canadian government was about conservatives not coming clean about the financial impact of that spending and those corporate tax cuts. imagine if you could topple a government for that here? we actually have the technology to do the wobbly screen thing, but we have a war on and we have richard engel tape to figure out in the newsroom. imagine what it would be like if we could topple governments for not coming clean about the budget impact of what they're doing here. saying, for example, that you're going to cut corporate taxes, always sounds great, sounds conservative, and it is about something fiscal, so it therefore sounds sort of
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fiscally conservative, but if you're dealing with a budget deficit, cutting revenue is bad for the deficit. it is not good for the deficit, it is bad for the deficit. it is not addition, it is subtraction. if we had full transparency about this, full understanding of all this, what's being done by the republican governors and legs tours in the states now would not be described in beltway media as fiscal conservatism. it would be described as provely gassy. as madness that could even get canadians excited enough to stand up and throw paper about. in michigan, faced with a $2 billion budget $1.8 billion to give tax breaks. in new jersey, they were faced with a $10.7 billion gauft. chris christie proposed $200 million in corporate tax breaks. in florida, faced with $4.7
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billion deficit, republican governor rick spot poe posed sending 1.5 billion in corporate tax cuts. in ohio, facing the year with $463 million of budget deficit, the republican controlled house proposed spending up to $10 million on tax breaks specifically for the petroleum industry, because they need it. in arizona, faced at the start of the year with $3.1 billion deficit, governor jan brewer decided to spend over a half billion in the next six years on tax cuts, half of it on corporate tax cuts. in wisconsin, faced with $3.4 billion deficit, scott walker proceeded to spend 140 million wisconsin dollars on business tax give aways. this is sort of what toppled the canadian government. conservatives there trying to do the same, telling everybody they cared about the deficit. wanted to be fiscally conservative, while doing exactly the opposite,
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instituting huge revenue give aways that would absolutely dessimate the budget. the opposition cited lack of transparency about the fiscal impact of what they were doing in voting them out today. we do not have a parliamentary system here, but we do have recalls here, and according to wisconsin state democrats, their effort to recall a handful of republican state senators in wisconsin is moving right along, thank you very much. democrats in wisconsin telling "the washington post" that statewide, they already have half the petitions they need to recall the republican senators they are targeting. they have a 60 day window to collect signatures. and once they are collected and valt dated, a recall election would be held in six weeks, doesn't wait until november. the republican majority in wisconsin is not big to begin with. if and when recall lksz happen, democrats only need to flip back three of the republican held seats they are targeting. it is worth noting one of those seats belongs to a republican who is representing a district
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that voted for president obama in 2008 by 61%. and one of them belongs to the guy whose wife says he is no longer living in his district because he now lives in madison with his alleged 20-something girlfriend. there might be vulnerability among the wisconsin republicans. might even be a canadian like government toppling in the making. joining us now, eugene robinson, msnbc political analyst and pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post." gene, thank you for being with us on a friday night. >> it is great, rachel. i come here for the special effects. i can't stay away. >> imagine going back in time. i can't even bother to do it on camera. fiscal conservatism is something that sounds so good, nobody ever bothers to define it any more. do the republican governors with the big tax give aways, are they going to run themselves into a real fiscal conservatism problem when people do the math about what they've done? >> i think there is a problem.
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after all, you say we are going to give corporate tax breaks, well, that's fine, but that costs money. that's money you're not going to get, therefore you're going to have a bigger deficit. and i think where the rubber hits the road is when people see that the deficit has actually grown, rather than shrunk. >> i think that's right. poll after poll shows the public on the sides of unions. there was a new poll from cnn that said 49% of people sympathize with unions, 41% tend to sympathize with companies when it comes to labor disputes over the last two or three years. republicans i think have calculated picking these fights because they thought they would have public opinion with them against unions. i think they've sort of been believing their own press about this too much. but can democrats take advantage of polling numbers like that? can they get that lightning into a bottle, build electoral momentum around the issues? >> i think the momentum, if it is real momentum you see in
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wisconsin illustrates that democrats can do that. there has been more excitement about organized labor and the labor movement since governor walker decided to take away collective bargaining rights than there had been in many years and in my memory, really. now, does that translate into votes and does it translate into recalls? we have to see how real it is. but i think they got the start of something at least. >> in terms of who benefits from the strategy that these governors and legislatures have taken, there is this sort of elephant in the room in terms of lowering corporate tax rates. front page of "the new york times" is about the general electric corporation avoiding paying taxes all together with clever accounting. even got a few billion back from treasury despite taxes. exxon not paying taxes.
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why lower tax rates when companies like this are already paying nothing? >> this is a philosophical argument, rachel, because as we see, there are enough loopholes in the corporate tax code that, you know, clever and big corporations can avoid paying taxes at all. i don't see why they should object to the corporate tax rate up to 90%. who cares. we don't have to pay it. >> eugene robinson, msnbc political analyst, pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post." thanks for being here. so no matter what the federal government says, there is still not a backup plan for deepwater oil rigs. turns out, we are vi aig fit thheovnmt w. ren atn mo. a busiro premier of the packed bag. you know when to hold 'em... and how to fold 'em.
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the energy of the revolution that started in tunesia and then egypt is still rickocheting around the arab world today in towns across syria. tens of thousands rallied for what the opposition called a friday of dignity, protesting the assad government in syria. protesting troops with live ammunition. they shot protesters in a town south of damascus.
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soops quoted residents saying as many as 20 people were killed there, but there is no independent verification of those numbers. 40 miles further south in the town of dara, where dozens of protesters were shot and killed earlier this at least 20 demonstrators killed today. but again no independe confirmation. that's what happened in syria today. in the nation of yemen tens of thousands of people rallied for what the opposition called a day of departure calling on the president of yemen to step down. the president's promise that he would step down, he keeps saying he will do that eventually but said specifically today he will only step down when he could hand over power to what he called safe hands. protesters in jordan today as well. one person killed there today and more than a hundred injured after pro government supporters started throwing stones at them. the police stepped in with batons and water cannons. we'll stay on all of these stories of course. please stay with us. it hit helps the lhe of companipanies
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kwoeft guard rescuers spent the day looking for as many as 11 missing oil workers after a huge explosion rocked a drilling rig in the gulf of mexico about 50 miles off the coast of louisiana. came out of nowhere and left several workers critically injured and the visual is on again tonight for people working in a dangerous job. >> on the evening of april 20th to last year, 2010, 11 men working onboard the deep water horizon oil rig in the gulf of mexico were killed. they died suddenly and violently when that rig burst into flames after a malfunction occurred 5,000 feet below them on the sea floor. those 11 men should not have lost their lives that night. the malfunction that occurred below them was supposed to be preventible. the rig was equipped with something called a blowout preventer that was supposed to
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keep those men safe. it failed. and now 11 months later we are learning the painful truth of why. this week a government commission report on the bp disaster produced alarming news. according to investigators the blowout preventer failed not because it was broken but because of a fundamental design flaw. it turns out the surge of pressure that causes a well blowout in the first place can also render the blowout preventer itself inoperable. the thing that is supposed to be the last line of defense, the thing that's supposed to prevent massive loss of life as well as massive damage to the environment, it does not work. as steve levine put it at foreign policy magazine last night, in a new report prepared for the u.s. interior department we get good news and bad news. the good news is the blowout preventer does what is suggested in the oil industry photos and the company and charts. the bad news is that it only does so in the photographs and charts. not in the real life crisis such as the bp disaster.
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from the financial times, quote, the bottom line is if the blowout preventer can be compromised during an accident then it cannot be guaranteed to serve its purpose of the prevention of a blowout of the kind that spilled oil for three months last year. the interior department had been moving toward letting the industry back in the gulf. it is likely this latest report is going to slow if not reverse that effort. here's the thing though. it hasn't slowed or reversed that effort. last night we highlighted this new report and raised questions about the federal government's decision to resume granting new permits to drill in the deep water in recent weeks. five new permits have been granted in the last 26 days. the fact that the government is now stepping up this country's return to deep water drilling would seem to suggest that drilling is safer now. but is it? the agency within the interior department that hands out these permits has gone to great lengths to assure the country that it is promoting the, quote, rigorous new safety standards implemented in the wake the deep water explosion. as we reported last night these
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assurances at least appear to be unwarranted. for one thing, our investigation reveals that the oil spill response plan for the first new permit handed out last month was written the year before the bp oil disaster. it's dated september, 2009. it therefore cannot include any lessons learned from the bp oil disaster. for the record, oil companies are not being required to update their oil spill response plans ahead of receiving new permits to drill. after our report aired last night the interior department contacted us to complain about our coverage. bitterly. they provided a list of what they said were new safety measures that have been implemented in the wake of the deep water horizon disaster. you can see those right now on our blog. maddow blog.msnbc.com. these measures include things like stepped up verifications of inspections and measurements, workplace safety rules for people who work on the rigs, a requirement to have remotely operated vehicles on hand at drill sites you about fundamental question about the blowout preventors remains. you remember the preventer that
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failed on the deep water horizon oil rig killing 11 oil workers. listen to what the former oil industry executive told us on this show about that last night. >> there's no fundamental change to the way we drill the deep water, rachel. we're doing it with the same equipment, the same blowout preventors on all the deep water rigs in the gulf that failed on that well. >> you're saying that oil rigs operating in the gulf right now and anybody getting new permits to operate in the gulf right now, they're using that same piece of equipment? >> they're using that exact same piece of equipment. >> the same exact piece of equipment. as we reported last night these new regulations of blowout preventors that the interior department is bragging on right now? they are just regulating a piece of equipment that is fundamentally flawed by design. >> the issue here is that these new regulations regulate an unreliable piece of equipment and regulating something that's
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unreliable doesn't make it more reliable. it just makes it more regulated. >> regulating something that is unreliable does not make it more reliable. it just makes it more regulated. the interior department is not happy with our coverage of this issue and you know what? i'm glad. they shouldn't be. this reporting does not paint them in what they are doing in a very good light. i'm sure the people who work for the interior department are good people. this is not personal. i don't mean for you to take it personally but despite your complaints we stand by our reporting. we do not believe we got anything wrong here. this is an issue of national significance. americans, particularly americans who work on oil rigs or who have a family member who works on an oil rig, americans deserve legitimate assurances from our government that this work is safe. especially at a time when our government is green lighting that work at a rapid rate. it is not just an implication from these new permits that this work is safer than it used to be. there are direct assurances from the department of the interior that these permits mean things are more